Smackdown : Jews vs. Mormons!

The game is on. The Mormons have been served.

I was listening to the radio this morning, and there was an entire segment dedicated to a story about how some* Jews are pissed because some* Mormons keep posthumously baptizing Jews who weren't actually their ancestors, (victims of the holocaust, for instance) which is apparently a technical foul, and kinda sorta against the rules.

I profess to know next to nothing about either faith, but from what I can gather, the Mormons believe that one of their duties is to dig back through history, and find out who their ancestors were, and baptize them, so they can all be together in heaven at some sort of infinite family barbecue or something.

Apparently this baptism isn't a physical location kind of thing, but rather ceremonial -- the found ancestor's names are read, listed in a book, some ceremony takes place, and then that person is considered baptized. To the Mormons, at least.

The Jews, however, belong to the "once a Jew, always a Jew" belief system, and are incensed about this breach of protocol, even though they believe that the baptisms don't count because they are rejected by the dead person. They are upset by the audacity of the Mormons to even attempt such a thing.

I have a few questions.

1. How do the Jews know the baptisms aren't sticking? Thier ancestors aren't talking, so it's tough to know whether they are bothered by these drive-by baptisms or not. They're dead remember, and tend to be on the quiet side.

2. How do the Mormons know the baptisms are sticking? They're not hearing any complaints from the people being baptized either, but that could just be because, HELLOOOO.....THEY'VE BEEN DEAD FOR 50 YEARS. Whatever.

3. By doing this, the Mormons think they're saving a soul. The Jews think that the baptism is bouncing off the long-dead person like a shopping cart off a Saturn wagon in the parking lot of the grocery store. My question is: Where's the problem? Sticks and stones will break my bones but symbolic baptisms will never hurt me. No harm on either side as far as I'm concerned.

It seems the actual fight is about whether a name gets listed in the book or not. Clearly, these people have too much time on their hands.

This is one of the reasons I'm not religious. I think that religion is the root of all evil, and that more bad things have been done in the name of religion than for any other reason.

Spirituality, yes. Religion, no. Think about it. Work with me on this one.

*edited for clarity specifically for Ammogal.


  1. As a Saturn owner, I approve of this analogy: "The Jews think that the baptism is bouncing off the long-dead person like a shopping cart off a Saturn wagon in the parking lot of the grocery store." Sweet

    Oh, and I agree with the religion being the root of all evil. It's just a way to control the masses. And Mormon's are annoying anyway (sorry to any Mormon's out there...but please, don't come to my door asking if my parents are home. JC!)

  2. Did you know that the Mormons learn to speak a variety of languages to convert people to their religion??
    Man, I can't even say "I no speak English" anymore!

  3. Regarding the term "the Jews"- certainly not all Jews are pissed. There are different branches of Judaism and then not all Jewish people think the same. It's just like any other religion that way.

    I believe in God. I consider myself a spiritual person. But yeah, I am not religious in the least. In order to do so I'd have to follow all kinds of rules and regulations, the interpretations of which would be subject to the interpreter. Usually a man in a gown. That right there is suspect.

    I think what matters most is how we treat people in the here and now.

    As for infinite barbeques, that sounds nice, actually.

  4. I love hearing stories about Mormons. I think that if Fox ever wanted to have a GOOD sitcom (I don't consider AD a sitcom) they should make it about Mormons.

  5. Mormons make me so angry...I almost want to burst out in song.

  6. Hee hee! I like the thought of you bursting out in song every time you read my blog, Erik w/a K! That thought makes me laugh. What song does it make you want to sing?

  7. I'm pretty sure Erik sings "Rumpshaker" when he reads your blog.

    By the way, I hope I didn't offend anyone. I removed my comment because it was highly insensitive. Although, I do not take back what I said about the guy I work with being fucking weird. But I think that has less to do with him being Mormon than it does with him just being effing strange.

  8. Hey Johnny V., for a really simplified explanation (for people who don't truly care and won't ask questions about the details anyways,) you were spot-on about the infinite barbeque description. And I agree with you-- if neither side believes in the other's philosophies, why the hell does it matter?
    (Edited so as not to kill all your comments....post away, people!)

  9. I think the Jews and Mormons need more fiber in their diets

  10. Religion. Can't live with it, can't kill people who follow it.

  11. Obviously neither the Jews or the Mormons have it figured out. Especially the mormons. Funny how they figured out Utah was the promised land AFTER Abraham Lincoln banished Brigham Young to the no-man's land to practice his anti-christian polygamy.

  12. Where did you hear that from, Mike? It's historically inaccurate, since the mormons moved to Utah in 1847 and Abraham Lincoln didn't become president until 1860...

  13. I'm a Mormon and I don't even get it. But I do find comments from people who aren't Jews or Mormons very interesting.

  14. "I think that religion is the root of all evil, and that more bad things have been done in the name of religion than for any other reason.

    Spirituality, yes. Religion, no."

    I couldn't agree with you more!!

  15. Just a little information on the subject...
    I was raised in the Mormon faith (the actual name of the church being The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints), and have actually participated in such "symbolic baptisms." What the Mormon faith actually calls them is "baptisms for the dead." Usually an ancestor is found through genealogy and a person is literally baptized (fully immersed in water accompanied by a prayer) in place of the deceased individual. I have been baptized for some of my family members that were never given the choice to choose the Mormon faith. The deceased, now existing in the "spirit world" choose whether to reject or accept their baptism and subsequent conversion. The belief is held that all people should at least be given the option; it is in no way shape or form forcing it upon anyone. In practice, the Mormon faith is not that much different than other Christian religions--people just don't know much about it or are misinformed. I would advise more people to at least study it a little before commenting.

  16. I agree with the mormons on at least one thing -- self-sufficiency and preparing for emergencies.

  17. Great book ~ "God is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens...

    Right on ~

  18. It's almost amusing to me to read and/or hear people, whether self-proclaimed “Agnostic”, (which seems to be the most common 'Fad' these days), or “Atheist” (again, self-proclaimed, which ironically comes from people who say things such as "Thank God" or "Please,God", or "Dear God, NO, Please!”) write things that they really don't fully understand, because they don’t bother to do research. I would venture to say that the majority of the people that respond to this kind of blog, with anti-religious comments, honestly have no idea what they are really commenting on. I don't say this to belittle or insult anyone. I'm just saying if people did their research, they could come up with more intelligent arguments that justify their shallow opinions. Perhaps some people just need to be a little more educated in subjects such as these before they offer serious opinions. Seriously, look at some of the responses. It's clear that many of the responding bloggers are just vomiting what they have heard or read from other individuals who also have not done their research. Maybe they inherited their ideas from their parents, or from news programs that only give one particular view point. Just guessing here, but I’m thinking that maybe they simply haven't done any background work. There are also Mormons and Jewish people out there that have chosen a different path for whatever reason. But in my experience, the vast majority of people who firmly believe and practice both religions have proven to be upstanding, moral and basically good human beings trying to raise their families and make a good honest living in a world of constant evil with way too many people who want something for nothing.
    But, hey...just my opinion. And I am entitled to that, just like you are. And I have done my research. Good day.

  19. Anonymous6:05 AM

    Mormons believe that they are the of the Tribe of Ephrim and as such are responsible for gathering of the ten "lost" tribes. They believe in the last verse in the old teastment that describes that Elijah the prophet will asend on these people and seal them up by family links and Baptizm for the dead to accomplish this. they seek new members, mostly who are from the Tribe of Ephrim to accomplish this. They further believe that the Jewish faith is their responsibility as they are not of the ten lost tribes. However, Mormons believe that the Jewish people will accept Jesus as ther Messiah during the last days.. There shouldn't be asny conflict except if you don't take Malichi's instruction seriously..